KitchenSavvy

A Pizza Find

For years, I have been trying to make a good thin crust pizza.  When my wife and I were in Italy several years ago, we really enjoyed a pizza we had in Rome, near the Trevi Fountain.  The crust was so thin and crisp that it was almost cracker like.

I tried everything I could think of to make a crust like that -- varying the water/flour ratios, making the dough with or without olive oil, rolling the crust thinner, using different oven temperatures, placing my pizza stone on a rack as high as possible in the oven, super-heating the pizza stone for a few minutes using the boiler before putting the pizza into the oven, even changing the order of ingredients on the pizza.  These all made some difference.  None of them gave the crust I was looking for.

Then, this past weekend, I pulled "Brother Juniper's Bread Book" by Peter Reinhart off the bookshelf and turned to his section on pizza.  In the inset on Memorable Pizza there was a suggestion I hadn't even thought of trying -- that the pizza stone should be put on the bottom shelf or even right on the floor of the oven and pre-heated for at least 20 minutes at 500°F (260°C) or higher.

Since I use parchment paper to keep the crust from sticking to my peel (actually an old piece of 1/8 inch plywood) I have to keep the temperature at or below 450°F (232°C), but I could certainly try putting my pizza stone on the floor of my oven.  My oven is electric, but the heating element is under the floor so that isn't a problem.  Other than that, I made a plain lean pizza dough with just water, flour, yeast and salt.  No fat, no sugar and no flavorings.  I rolled a thin crust and assembled the pizza in the traditional North American order of sauce, ingredients and finally the cheese on top, and baked it for 13 minutes.

I knew as soon as I sliced the pizza that this was the missing link.  I could hear the knife crunching through the crust.  The result was the cracker thin, crunchy crust I had been trying for.  Because the stone had been heated directly by the element, the crust cooked quickly, before the other ingredients could make it soggy, as sometimes happens.

I know there is still some room for improvement.  Next time, I need to let the dough relax a bit more as I roll it out, and I think I'll try adding a little oil.  Both of those should help the overall texture, but I'm pleased with the result so far.

So, if you have been trying for that thin crunchy crust too, try lowering your pizza stone.    It may just be the secret you are looking for.

If there is nothing to get in the way, try putting the stone right on the floor of the oven. If you have an electric oven with the element above the floor then you will need to use a rack in the lowest position and put the stone on that.   If you are worried about safety, or the warranty on your oven, you may prefer to use a rack at the lowest position.

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Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Cuisinart Convection Breadmaker - Not Ready for Prime Time

For Christmas this year, I asked for and was given a Cuisinart Convection Bread Maker, model CBK-200C.  If your idea of a bread maker is, "I'll set this up and have fresh bread when I get home from work," or "when I get up in the morning," then the CBK-200C is probably not the one for you.

I have only had it for three months, and have only used it on weekends, but I have encountered a number of problems.

More an aggravation than a problem, I don't see any indication whether the recipes  are for United States or Canada.  Canadian flour tends to be higher in protein than its southern counterpart so we need to use less of it to get the same rise.  Since the product label on the machine and the manual both say Cuisinart Canada, I would have expected the recipes to be suited to Canadian ingredients.  Maybe not!

The first time I used my new bread maker, I tried the recipe for a 2 pound loaf of  "Basic White Bread-Machine Bread."  It is a good thing I was there to watch over things.  Not just once but twice I had to reach in by hand and tear out chunks of wet dough during the baking cycle as the bread rose until it touched the underside of the window in the lid.  OK, I'm used to correcting recipes for bread makers, but in the end the largest loaf I can make uses a mere 2 2/3 cups of flour.  That is even less flour than is given in the 1 1/2 pound recipe in the book that came with it.

Another aggravation, and admittedly this is partially a matter of taste, is that I find the cooking time to get a perfect crust on the basic white bread recipe is half way between the light and medium crust settings.  At the light setting, I find the crust dull and flavorless, but at the medium setting it is over cooked and so dry that it tears the roof of my mouth.

I have noticed that if I leave the machine alone to do its stuff for the entire cycle, some of the damp flour collects in two corners of the pan and doesn't get mixed in during kneading.  If I'm lucky, it may stick to the dough during the first rising, but it may also just stay there creating unpleasant lumps in the corners of the bread.  To be sure of a proper loaf, with no caked flour corners, I need to stop the machine and reach in with a scraper to get the flour out of the corners.

The second time I used the machine, the pan jumped its guides and twisted around in the machine.  To hold the pan in place, there are two metal springs attached to the inside of the oven.  On the narrow sides of the pan there are corresponding metal tabs that are supposed to catch either side of each spring to hold the pan in place.  These tabs are quite small and don't appear to be adequate to hold the pan as it gets jostled about by the kneading of the dough.

Equally as poor is the design of the drive.  Both the plate in the base of the oven which engages the crossbar on the shaft holding the paddle and the crossbar itself are made from stamped metal.  This means that the sides are not perfectly perpendicular.  If the pan lifts up even a slight amount, as it seems to do during kneading, then the plate and crossbar slip.  The plate is then free to turn a half turn before slamming into the crossbar again, making a loud banging noise.  Again, it is a good thing I was around to hear the ruckus.  It wouldn't take long with it running like that for something to break.

Twice now I have had the paddle lift completely off of the drive shaft.  The first time, I didn't know, but found out when I went to take the paddle out before final rise.  The second time, today, I happened to be in the kitchen and heard the motor free wheeling during the initial knead.

Something like half of the times I have used this machine, something has gone wrong.  The pan has shifted, the drive mechanism has slipped due to the pan moving up, or the paddle has come off during kneading.  This is definitely not a machine I feel I can trust to do the job right when I'm not around to watch over it.

My rating for the Cuisinart Convection Bread Maker -- several slices short of a full loaf.

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Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Breadmaker Jewish Rye Bread

If you own an automatic breadmaker and are getting tired of the same old loaf with the paddle hole in the bottom, then you should try using it for something new.  I frequently use my bread maker as a mixer/proofer and then shape the loaf by hand to cook in the oven.

The following recipe is for Jewish-style rye bread, based rather loosely on the book Secrets of a Jewish Baker: Recipes for 125 Breads from Around the World by George Greenstein.  It reminds me of the caraway rye bread that my father used to like.  Somehow, when we were kids, Dad convinced my siblings and me that the best part of the bread was the heel - the crusty end of a loaf of bread.  Whenever there was a new loaf of bread, he would ask "Who want the end?"  Four voices would cry out, "I do, I do!"  Dad would make a big show of deciding who had yelled first, and then cut the end off the bread and hand it to one of us.  So, in honor of Dad ...

Breadmaker Jewish Rye Bread

This recipe is made to work with my Black & Decker B1630 Breadmaker, which can make loaves up to two pounds in size.  You may need to adjust it for your breadmaker.  The recipe has a starter, which is mixed and allowed to proof overnight, followed by making the actual dough.

Starter
Amount		Measure	Ingredient
1	¼	c	Rye Flour
1	⅓	c	Water
1		tsp	Active Dry Yeast
1		tsp	Caraway Seeds - optional
	¼	tsp	Onion Powder - optional
Dough
Amount		Measure	Ingredient
	⅓	c	Water
2		tsp	Salt
1		tsp	Caraway Seeds - optional
3	¼	c	White Flour
1		tsp	Active Dry Yeast

1. If using caraway seeds, start by grinding the teaspoon of caraway that goes into the starter mixture.  Following your breadmaker's instructions, add the ingredients for the starter.  As soon as mixing has completed, turn off the breadmaker, or unplug it.
2. Leave to proof at room temperature in the pan of the breadmaker overnight or up to 24 hours.  The longer it rests, the more sourdough flavor will develop.
3. Set the breadmaker to the dough setting and add the rest of the ingredients.  Allow to run through the entire dough setting.  If your machine doesn't have a dough setting, then just shut it off or unplug it after the dough is complete and has risen, but before it starts to cook, about 2 hours depending on your breadmaker.
4. Turn the dough out onto a lightly floured surface, punch it down and then shape into a round or elongated loaf.  Place onto a baking sheet or, if you have a large enough pizza stone to hold the loaf, put the loaf onto a piece of parchment paper.  Cover loosely with a lightly floured cloth and let rise until nearly doubled.
5. Meanwhile heat your oven to 375°F (190°C).
6. When the bread is ready to cook, uncover the loaf, using a sharp knife or razor blade make a few slashes in the top and place it in the oven.  If you are using a pizza stone, use a peal to transfer the loaf on its parchment paper onto the stone.
7. Cook for about 40 minutes, until brown and the loaf makes a hollow thump when tapped on the bottom, or until an instant read thermometer reads 205°F (96°C).

Per Slice: 82 Calories; trace Fat (3.3% calories from fat); 2g Protein; 17g Carbohydrate; 1g Dietary Fiber; 0mg Cholesterol; 179mg Sodium

NOTES:

1. During the resting period the top of the breadmaker pan can be covered with plastic wrap to prevent drying.  Do not operate the breadmaker with the plastic wrap in place.
2. If you want a shiny crust, typical of some rye breads, make a solution of 1 tablespoon of cornstarch to ½ cup of cold water.  Heat it in your microwave or on the stovetop, stirring occasionally, until it thickens.  Brush this solution onto the loaf just before slashing the top.

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Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Cleaning Cutting Boards

I recently received a plastic and a wooden cutting board.  Unfortunately neither came with cleaning instructions.   I use the plastic type for the meats, and the wooden for vegetables, fruits and breads.  How do I make sure I am not having any bacteria or other bad things pass on to other foods?  In other words, how do I clean my cutting boards?  Thanks

--Gordon

It may surprise you to hear this, but tests of bacteria counts on well maintained cutting boards actually show that wood may actually be as safe as, or safer than, plastic!  The grooves cut into the plastic board during regular use are a great harbor for nasties.

Cutting boards are made from several materials, including wood, various plastics, glass and bamboo.  Wooden boards may be solid block, glued up pieces, laminates or wood composite particle boards.  Dealing with the first issue, if you have a glass cutting board, throw it out.  Glass dulls knives.

Generally, wooden boards that are either solid or glued up from boards or blocks need to be hand washed.  Washing them in a dishwasher or leaving them to soak will leech out natural oils and eventually cause the wood to check or split.  Use a clean dishrag to scrub them well in hot soapy water.  After cutting poultry, it is a good idea to either clean them first in a weak bleach solution (1 tablespoon of chlorine bleach to 1 gallon of hot water) or have a spray bottle with the chlorine solution to spray them down with.  Rinse and then wash as above. Rinse again to remove any soap left on the surface.

Some people like to occasionally wipe their wooden cutting boards with a cloth moistened with mineral oil.  This helps restore the surface appearance and may help prevent food odors from getting into the pores of the wood.  If you do that, allow it to sit for a minute and then buff with a paper towel to remove any excess oil.

If your wooden board starts to get deep cuts or chunks missing from the surface, or if it develops an off odor, then either replace it or it may be possible to have it resurfaced by planing off the top of the board.  Plastic or laminate boards that are badly marred or become smelly should be thrown out.

Plastic cutting boards can usually be washed in your dishwasher, assuming you have one, but should not be run through a sterilize or heat dry cycle as these may permanently damage the board.  The hot water and dishwasher soap should be enough to sterilize the board, but you may still want to give them a bleach treatment after cutting up poultry before putting them in the dishwasher.  If you don't have a dishwasher, then wash them as above for wooden boards.  Plastic boards can be left to soak.

Some laminate and bamboo boards will tolerate  the dishwasher, but follow manufacturers'  instructions.  If you aren't sure, then hand wash.

Personally, I almost exclusively use rigid white plastic cutting boards because of their convenience.  I look for ones that are not so smooth as to slide around or have the knife or food slide on them.

One final comment on the issue of cross contamination from your cutting board, always cut meat or poultry last.  If you can't do that, use a second board or wash your cutting board well, as described above, before cutting anything else.

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If you have food or cooking questions, send them to Questions@KitchenSavvy.com
Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Pop-up Turkey Thermometer

This past Christmas we bought a turkey with one of those plastic pop-up thermometer thingies in it.  It got me to wondering:  How do these things work, are they reliable, and can they be reused?

--George

Although some people refer to them as timers, they are actually thermometers, as you note, since they indicate the temperature of the meat and not how long it has been cooking.  If you look inside one of them, you will see the pop-up plunger, usually red plastic, inside the housing.  The end of the plunger is held in place by a small glob of metal that is made to melt at a temperature very close to 165°F (74°C) plus or minus one or two degrees F (a half to one degree C).  Once the metal blob has melted, a spring inside the device lifts the plunger up to indicate that the turkey is cooked.

While the temperature at which they will pop can be determined quite accurately, they have two shortcomings.  First, they are fixed in length so they only penetrate a fixed distance into the meat.  Since the breast of a turkey isn't always the same thickness, the sensor end of the pop-up may not be placed far enough in on a larger turkey, or may be too close to bone on a small one.

Also, they only measure the temperature at one spot on the bird.  If it has cooked unevenly, or if it was frozen and thawed unevenly, the pop-up may give a wrong reading.  As note in Roast Turkey Temperature, the meat of a turkey turns out best when cooked to 165°F (74°C) for the breast and between 175°F (80°C) and 180°F (82°C) for the thigh and drumstick.

For these reasons, it is recommended that you check the temperature in several places using an instant read thermometer to be sure that everything is cooked right.

As far as reusing them, while some people suggest that this can be done, it may be difficult to assure that the end of the plunger is properly fixed back into the metal so that it won't release too early.  Since they come with the turkey, or can be purchased new for about a dollar each, the question is whether your health, and that of your family or friends, is worth the risk.

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If you have food or cooking questions, send them to Questions@KitchenSavvy.com
Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Care of Copper Pots

I have what I believe to be a copper pot.  At least it has copper on the outside.  I've cooked pasta in it many times and it works great.

However, once I kept the leftover pasta in the pot and put it in the fridge.  A day or two later when I took the pasta and pot out of the fridge, the pasta was discolored…I think it was green.  But the pasta smelled fine, and certainly gave no indication that it was spoiled.

Is this some sort of a chemical reaction?  Is it dangerous?  Is there something I can do to prevent this?

--Daniel

Copper pots that are not just for show are copper on the outside, but lined with another metal on the inside.  The reason for this is that copper itself is toxic.  According to McGee, the issue isn't necessarily the amount of copper taken into the diet as the fact that the human body has a limited capacity to excrete copper so that if the intake is higher than what can be eliminated, copper will build up in the the body.   Copper toxicity causes nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, metallic taste, and diarrhea. Ingestion of large doses may cause stomach and intestine ulceration, jaundice, and kidney and liver damage.  Copper is also needed by the body in small amounts for enzyme production.  The USDA dietary guidelines for copper are a Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) of 900 micrograms and a maximum daily upper limit of 10 milligrams.

The pot you have is more than likely copper lined with tin.  Stainless steel is also sometimes used to line copper pots, though less commonly.  Don't confuse this, though, with stainless steel pots that have a copper coating on the outside.  Tin is most commonly used to line copper, although it is prone to wear, has a low melting point and shouldn't be used with acidic foods.

The fact that leftover pasta cooked in the pot has turned green suggests that the tin lining on your pot is scratched or worn through, and that some of the copper is leeching into the cooking water.  As the pasta sat afterward, the copper reacted with chemicals in the food, most likely sulfur compounds, causing the characteristic green tint.

If you have tin lined copper pots, they should be inspected frequently for scratches or areas of wear that will allow the food being cooked, or the cooking liquid, to come into direct contact with the underlying copper.  If the lining looks worn or deeply scratched, check with kitchen supply stores or on the Internet for re-tinning services.

Metal utensils should never be used in copper pots lined with tin, as the tin scratches easily.  Only use plastic or wooden utensils.  Avoid overheating copper pots or placing them empty on the stovetop to preheat, as this can cause the tin lining to melt.  Wash by hand using a mild dish detergent, never an abrasive cleaner or scouring pad, as these can wear down the lining, too.  To clean the outside, use a commercial copper cleaner following instructions, or a soft cloth dipped in a paste made with vinegar and table salt.  As mentioned earlier, don't use tin lined copper pots to cook acidic foods such as tomato based sauces.  And, as you might have guessed, don't use copper pots or bowls, lined or unlined, to store food.

Copper pots or pans that are not lined with tin or stainless steel are for decorative use only and should not be used for cooking.  The one exception is that some cooks prefer to whisk egg whites in a copper bowl as it helps produce firmer peaks.  The small amount of copper that enters food through this application is not sufficient to be considered a concern.

As for the safety of the pasta you cooked, it is hard to say.  A small amount of copper is useful in the diet, but how much is in the pasta is anyone's guess, as is the amount that might have already entered your body through other foods cooked in this pan.  The first rule of safety in the kitchen is "When in doubt, throw it out!"  That's what I would do with the pasta in this case.

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If you have food or cooking questions, send them to Questions@KitchenSavvy.com
Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Blending Hot Liquids

Why is it that when you blend hot liquids they blow the lid off the blender if you aren't holding it in place?

--Dave

Actually, the science of this is pretty straight forward.  As you know, when you heat a gas, it expands.  So, you put hot liquid into the the jar of the blender and put the lid on.  At this point you have a near boiling liquid with some near room temperature air between it and the top of the jar.  When you start the blender, the air is pulled down through the liquid into the blades where it is broken into millions of tiny bubbles.  At the same time, all of that air gets heated up and expands to about a quarter again the volume it had before^*.  Because some of it is incorporated into the liquid, the effect of the expanding air is to push the liquid upwards.   Both the now hot air above the liquid plus the expanding liquid force the lid off the container.

In order to be safe, it is recommended when you blend hot liquids that you never fill the jar more than half full, that you put the lid on and then cover it with a dry towel and hold it down by hand.  Also, use as slow a speed as possible.

^* If you are interested in a more scientific explanation, the basic equation that describes the relationship between pressure, volume and temperature of a gas is PV=nRT, where:

P is the pressure of the gas;
V is the volume it occupies
n is the amount of the gas there is;
R is a scientific constant; and
T is the temperature of the gas in degrees Kelvin.

Kelvin is a temperature scale that has the same scale as Celsius, except that 0°K is the absolutely lowest temperature that anything can possibly reach.  0°K is the same as -459.67°F or -273.15°C.  What the formula says is that if you double the temperature, either the volume will double, the pressure will double (if the gas is tightly contained), or some combination of the two will occur.

So, the air in the blender jar is at room temperature, which is about 293°K.  You turn on the blender, and all of a sudden it is heated to around 373°K.  Assuming that the pressure tries to stay the same, which it will do if possible since the container has a lid that can be blown off, the gas expands by 373/293 = 1.273 times.

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Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Brewing Coffee

There are so many appliances available nowadays to make coffee.  What is the best way to brew coffee in order to get the best flavor?

--Sylvia

If you like a smooth well flavored coffee without a lot of bitterness, then you want to use water that is just off the boil, somewhere around 200°F (93°C), give or take about 5°F (3°C).  Much cooler and the flavors aren't extracted from the coffee; much warmer and too much tannin and other compounds are extracted, making the coffee harsh.

Drip coffee machines typically heat the water from the reservoir in a pipe built into the heating pad under the pot.  Steam from the heated water pushes it up a tube and into the basket containing the coffee grounds.  Depending on the make and design, some of these may work well, but with others the water may be far too hot.

The traditional coffee perk, which pushes water up a central stem where it flows over into the basket holding the grounds, has two major faults.  First, because of the closed design the water is far too hot when it comes into contact with the grounds, especially toward the end of the brew cycle.  Second, because the water is recirculated, the already brewed coffee is returned to the boiling point repeatedly making the final product more bitter.

My personal favorite for making coffee is the French Press.  Ground coffee is placed into the container of the press and water that has been boiled and then allowed to cool slightly is poured over the grounds.  The mixture is stirred to make sure the coffee is fully in contact with the water, and then the cover is put on.  Built into the cover is a plunger.  After the coffee has sat for two to four minutes, the plunger is slowly pressed down, forcing the grounds to the bottom and extracting the brewed coffee which is poured immediately.  The result is a very smooth and flavorful cup of coffee.

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Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Difference Between Dry and Liquid Measuring Cups

Hi.  Is there any difference between dry and liquid measuring cups?  Do they measure the same amount, and if so, why do I need both?  I had heard once that there is a difference between the volume of dry and liquid measures.

--Bob

The volume measured by dry and liquid measuring cups typically used in the kitchen is the same.   To be clear, I am using the word "cup" here to mean the container and not necessarily the unit of measure, so the same holds true for measuring a half cup, or quarter cup, using the appropriate sized measure.

The reason for having two sets is because dry ingredients are easiest handled using a "scoop and level" technique where the cup is overfilled and then a knife or other straight edge is scraped across the top to level the amount to the right measure.  This only works if the measuring cup is filled to the brim.  If you try to measure a cup of, say, sugar using a liquid measuring cup you can't scoop and level, and it is harder to get an accurate measure by using the line.  Dry ingredients don't want to make a  nice straight line across their top and if you try to get them to, they settle in the cup causing error, so the cup used for liquid measures is not accurate for dry ingredients.

Conversely, it is difficult to measure  liquid if you need to fill the measuring cup to the very brim, and even if you succeed, you either make a mess or have difficulty getting the entire amount transported to the next step, so dry measuring cups are not easy to work with for liquid ingredients. 

In the U.S., the quantity measured by dry and liquid measured less than a pint are the same.  After that, there is a difference.  A U.S. pint used for liquid measures is 473 milliliters, where as a dry measure pint is 551 Milliliters, which means it is 16.5% larger.  A U.S. dry measure quart is 16.4% bigger than its liquid counterpart, at 1101 milliliters vs. 946.

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Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Meat Dries Out in Slow Cooker

I've just started using a slow cooker, and have had pretty mediocre results in keeping my meat moist vs. conventional cooking. For example, the chicken always seems overdone and dry.  Even my beef stew has been on the dry side, with my latest one almost inedible (not tough--just dry) after 7.5 hours on Low. My question is:  Am I simply overcooking it (i.e. the slow cooker might be hotter than the recipes call for)?  Should I start adjusting my times down, and if so, by how much?  Or is it meant to be stewed longer?  Should I add more liquid?  The vegetables seem perfect, though.

I've actually used several different models of slow cooker (some borrowed, some bought and returned), and they all seem to dry the meat.

-- Ramona

This may come as a surprise, but what is likely happening is that you are overcooking the meat.  We tend to think that if you stew meat, the longer it cooks, the more tender and juicy it gets.  In fact, this works only up to a point.

As proteins heat up, they loosen their internal bonds, begin to uncoil and bond with neighboring protein molecules.   See Custards and Sauces for a description of how proteins change with temperature.

However, at somewhere around 170°F (76°C), depending on the meat used and the other ingredients present, the protein network begins to break apart again and and the individual molecules tighten back up.  As that happens, the muscle fibers in the meat shrink, their cell walls break open and the water that was trapped within the muscle fiber starts to leak out. The result is that the texture of the meat becomes dry even though it was cooked in liquid.  The same thing can happen in a pot roast or even with meat dishes cooked on the stovetop.

If you're like many people who start supper in the slow cooker before you leave for work in the morning then you are taking part in a balancing act.  You are trying to cook the food at a sufficiently high temperature so that it gets out of the danger zone for bacterial growth fairly quickly.  That temperature range is between 40 °F and 140 °F (4 °C to 60 °C).  On the other hand, you don't want to overcook the meat to the point of being too dry. This isn't an easy balance to achieve.

I would try cutting the meat into somewhat larger chunks, perhaps up to about 2 inches (5 cm) to a side, and cooking for a shorter period of time.  Once the cooker gets up to temperture, try cooking the food for about 5 hours longer.  That should give you a total cooking time of about 6 hours.  If the meat is still coming out dry, reduce the time by another half hour or so.  For safety, though, always be sure that the meat is cooked completely.

If you want to see more recommendations on using a slow cooker check out the posting Browning Meat for Slow Cooker.

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If you have food or cooking questions, send them to Questions@KitchenSavvy.com
Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward