KitchenSavvy

Dis-dressed Turkey

I understand that the common wisdom nowadays is to cook stuffing separately from the turkey.  Why?

--Karen

In order for salmonella and other bacteria to be killed, most food, including turkey,  should be cooked to an internal temperature of 165°F (74°C).  The temperature should be measured at the center of the food.

The ideal cooking temperatures for turkey are 165°F (74°C) for breast meat and between 175°F (80°C) and 180°F (82°C) for the leg and thigh.  At those temperatures, the light and dark meats are at their most tender and moist.  Above those temperatures, the proteins start to tighten, squeezing out moisture and leaving the meat drier.  At approximately 12 - 15 minutes per pound (27 - 33 minutes per kg), an 18 pound (8 kg) turkey will take between 3 ½ and 4 ½ hours to cook¹.

So, here is the problem.  During the time a stuffed turkey is sitting in the oven, juices from the meat, possibly contaminated with salmonella or other nasties, are soaking into the stuffing.  Since the food is in a nice warm environment, the bacteria will grow even faster than normal.  By the time the breast meat reaches its ideal temperature the stuffing has been acting as a bacteria culture for around three hours or so.  If you go for the higher temperature on the thigh meat, it has been sitting even longer.

Instead of measuring the temperature at the the center of the breast or thigh, you need to measure the temperature in the center of the stuffing.  Because the heat had to penetrate the breast and thigh to get to the stuffing, by the time it is thoroughly heated, the meat is likely overdone.

The other problem with stuffing inside a turkey is that if it is not thoroughly cooked and then is left inside the cavity, it can contaminate the leftover turkey.  Stuffing should always be removed from inside the cavity before the leftovers are refrigerated².

The easiest way to avoid this dilemma is to cook the turkey and the stuffing separately.  Prepare the stuffing as normal but keep it refrigerated in a covered casserole dish until about a half hour before the turkey is finished.  Then put it in the oven and let it cook while the turkey finishes and rests before carving.  All together that should give you about a full hour of cooking.  Check to be sure that the stuffing has reached at least 165°F (74°C), and if necessary cook it a bit longer.  If you miss the taste of the pan juices soaked into the stuffing, you can pour some into the stuffing from the bottom of the roasting pan when the turkey comes out to rest before you make the gravy.  Also, if you want, you can take the lid off of the casserole for the last 20 minutes or so to brown the top.

I make a version of the Mashed Potato Stuffing I had the first time I went to Christmas with my future in-laws.  This year at Thanksgiving there were rave reviews about the stuffing, which had been cooked outside the turkey as described above.

^1. Always use a thermometer to measure doneness.  Cooking times are approximations for planning.

^2. If you absolutely must cook the stuffing inside the bird, you can use a stuffing bag to make removal and serving easier.

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Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

How to Tell if Eggs are Fresh

I have a carton of eggs without a best-before date on it.  I think I have had the eggs for about two or three weeks.  Is there any way to tell if they are fresh?

--Lin

There are two ways to tell how fresh your eggs are, but you need to remember that these are rough guidelines and that they don't necessarily tell you if the eggs are safe to eat.

The first method is to fill a container with cold water.  If your egg is fairly fresh, it will sink to the bottom of the bowl and lay on its side, maybe tilted a little toward the rounder end up.  As the egg gets older, it loses moisture and the air sac inside the rounder end enlarges.  A somewhat older egg may still sink to the bottom of the bowl, but will rest on the pointy end.  If the egg floats with the round end slightly above water, then it is old and should be discarded.

The container needs to be deep enough that you can clearly see if the egg is submerged, touching the bottom, or floating.  A four cup (one liter) glass measuring cup is ideal for this test.

If you were planning to crack the egg anyway, you can also tell the freshness by emptying the egg onto a flat dish, such as a side plate.  If the egg is completely fresh, the white will stay together and mound up noticeably around the yolk so that it clearly can be seen to have two levels.  The yolk will be rounded and well domed.  As the egg get older, the white becomes more runny, spreads more on the plate and doesn't rise around the yolk.  The yolk also becomes flatter.  If the white is watery and shows little or no rise in level around the yolk, then the egg is quite old.

As I said above though, these are tests only of the age of an egg and don't tell you about the safety.  improperly stored eggs can be contaminated and still pass these tests.  For safety, always try to be sure and buy eggs in a carton with a clear date, keep them in the carton, and don't move eggs from one partly used carton into another.  Always use eggs before the best-before date.

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If you have food or cooking questions, send them to Questions@KitchenSavvy.com



Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Out of Date Cake Mixes

I have several out of date cake mixes, probably about two years old.  I assume they would not rise properly as the baking powder in them has lost its potency.  Would they work if I added fresh baking powder?  What would be the proper amount, if so?   Thank you, although I suspect the answer will be, "try it and see."

--Geri

You are likely right that the potency of the baking powder will have lessened during the time the cake mixes have been sitting on the shelf.  How much potency has been lost depends on a number of factors, so it would be hard to estimate how much fresh baking powder would be needed to bring things back to where they should be.

But that may not be the only reason that the cake mixes are no longer good.

Pretty much all cake mixes contain fats that will go rancid with time.  It goes rancid through the oxidation of fat molecules.  This happens easiest in unsaturated fats.  Saturated and trans fats are less prone to oxidation but can undergo chemical changes that break the fat down into simpler molecules that can then oxidize.  Rancid fats have an unpleasant flavor and a sharp stinging odor that ruin the taste of foods, and may not be healthy to eat.

Another problem is that the flavor compounds such as vanilla, lemon, chocolate and so on, that are used in the cake mixes lose their potency over time.  An old cake mix may well taste more bland than a fresh one.

So, this time I wouldn't recommend a "try it and see" approach.  For food safety reasons, the motto "when in doubt, throw it out" comes more to mind in this case.

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Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Keeping Easter Eggs

How long can you keep boiled easter eggs without refrigeration?  How long can you keep boiled eggs in the fridge?  Please, we need this answer A.S.A.P.

--Ed

I assume when you ask how long can you keep boiled Easter eggs without refrigeration, you mean ones that you intend to eat afterwards.  If so, then the general food safety rule holds.  Cooked food should be kept no more than two hours at room temperature.   You may think that the shell will provide some extra safety, and therefore more time, but when it comes to food safety and the health of family and friends, it is always better to err on the conservative side, so stick with just two hours.

According to the American Egg Board, hard cooked eggs still in their shells will keep in the fridge for up to one week.  If they are peeled, they should be kept in the fridge for no more than three days.

If you store hard boiled eggs in the fridge, you may notice an odor from the outgassing of hydrogen sulfide formed during the cooking.  The odor will dissipate in a few hours and does not necessarily mean that the eggs were bad, assuming they were not past their "best before" date.

In any case, if you are dyeing the eggs first and then plan to eat them, be sure to use only food safe dyes.  Regular food coloring works well for dyeing eggs.

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If you have food or cooking questions, send them to Questions@KitchenSavvy.com



Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Cleaning Cutting Boards

I recently received a plastic and a wooden cutting board.  Unfortunately neither came with cleaning instructions.   I use the plastic type for the meats, and the wooden for vegetables, fruits and breads.  How do I make sure I am not having any bacteria or other bad things pass on to other foods?  In other words, how do I clean my cutting boards?  Thanks

--Gordon

It may surprise you to hear this, but tests of bacteria counts on well maintained cutting boards actually show that wood may actually be as safe as, or safer than, plastic!  The grooves cut into the plastic board during regular use are a great harbor for nasties.

Cutting boards are made from several materials, including wood, various plastics, glass and bamboo.  Wooden boards may be solid block, glued up pieces, laminates or wood composite particle boards.  Dealing with the first issue, if you have a glass cutting board, throw it out.  Glass dulls knives.

Generally, wooden boards that are either solid or glued up from boards or blocks need to be hand washed.  Washing them in a dishwasher or leaving them to soak will leech out natural oils and eventually cause the wood to check or split.  Use a clean dishrag to scrub them well in hot soapy water.  After cutting poultry, it is a good idea to either clean them first in a weak bleach solution (1 tablespoon of chlorine bleach to 1 gallon of hot water) or have a spray bottle with the chlorine solution to spray them down with.  Rinse and then wash as above. Rinse again to remove any soap left on the surface.

Some people like to occasionally wipe their wooden cutting boards with a cloth moistened with mineral oil.  This helps restore the surface appearance and may help prevent food odors from getting into the pores of the wood.  If you do that, allow it to sit for a minute and then buff with a paper towel to remove any excess oil.

If your wooden board starts to get deep cuts or chunks missing from the surface, or if it develops an off odor, then either replace it or it may be possible to have it resurfaced by planing off the top of the board.  Plastic or laminate boards that are badly marred or become smelly should be thrown out.

Plastic cutting boards can usually be washed in your dishwasher, assuming you have one, but should not be run through a sterilize or heat dry cycle as these may permanently damage the board.  The hot water and dishwasher soap should be enough to sterilize the board, but you may still want to give them a bleach treatment after cutting up poultry before putting them in the dishwasher.  If you don't have a dishwasher, then wash them as above for wooden boards.  Plastic boards can be left to soak.

Some laminate and bamboo boards will tolerate  the dishwasher, but follow manufacturers'  instructions.  If you aren't sure, then hand wash.

Personally, I almost exclusively use rigid white plastic cutting boards because of their convenience.  I look for ones that are not so smooth as to slide around or have the knife or food slide on them.

One final comment on the issue of cross contamination from your cutting board, always cut meat or poultry last.  If you can't do that, use a second board or wash your cutting board well, as described above, before cutting anything else.

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If you have food or cooking questions, send them to Questions@KitchenSavvy.com
Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Holding Hot Foods

At what temperature can I keep roast chicken or turkey in the oven to keep it warm and safe if we are having a very long dinner party?

--Susan

Hot food should be held at a temperature above 140°F (60°C) if it is not being served immediately.   Unfortunately, most home ovens are not built to operate reliably at that low of a temperature.  Typical home ovens will only operate as low as 200°F (93 °C) although some may go down to 170°F (77°C).  You could turn the oven to its lowest reliable setting, but at those temperatures, quality will be lost.  If you think that you can run your oven at close to 140°F, I would recommend checking this with an oven thermometer just to be sure.  The built in thermostats on ovens are unreliable, particularly at such low temperatures.

The good news, however, is that if your poultry is properly cooked in the first place, it can safely keep for up to two hours at temperatures below 140°F, which should be plenty of time, even for a long dinner party (see How Long Can Cooked Food Be Left Out).

Start by making your best guess on when the bird will be served, and work backwards from there to when it should go into the oven.   Don't forget to allow for 15 to 20 minutes resting time before it is carved.

When it is done, take the bird out of the oven, cover it with foil and drape a few clean towels over it to keep in the heat.  It should hold safely like this for at least an hour without much loss of quality, which means that if your guess was off by 3/4 of an hour, you should still be alright.  If necessary, return the bird to a hot oven for a short while to reheat it.

All poultry must be cooked to a minimum of 165°F(74°C) throughout for food safety.  Some sources recommend 180°F (82°C), but at this temperature the lighter breast meat starts to dry out and lose quality.  Dark meat is actually better when cooked to this higher temperature.  See Roast Turkey Temperature.

If you are planning to cook and carve the bird before guests arrive and then hold it in a warm oven for a long time, then you are likely going to have some loss of quality, no matter what you do.

To learn more about how long food can be left out before refrigeration and the danger zone, read How Long Can Cooked Food Be Left Out.

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If you have food or cooking questions, send them to Questions@KitchenSavvy.com
Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

How Long will Leftover Turkey Keep in the Fridge?

We roasted a fresh turkey un-stuffed on Thanksgiving and the left-over pieces have been stored in the refrigerator in it's own container.  How long is too long to safely consume the left-over turkey?  Thank you.

--Betty

In our house, most of the leftover turkey is consumed for late night snacks or lunch the next day as Turkey Buns.  In fact, I have been known to say the only reason to roast a turkey for supper is to have leftovers for turkey buns.  Still, there is always some leftover for turkey with gravy, tetrazzini or some other dish.

The general rule for meat is that it will safely keep for about three days, provided that:

• the meat was thoroughly cooked;
• it was not left in the "danger zone" temperatures of between 140°F (60°C) and 40°F (4°C) for more than two hours; and
• the refrigerator is kept below 40°F (4°C).

If any of the above is not done, then the storage time will be reduced, and the risk of food-borne illness greatly increased.

For turkey and chicken, the meat must be cooked to at least 165°F (74°C) throughout, although you likely want to cook the dark meat to closer to 180°F (82°C) for the best results.  If the turkey had been stuffed, then the stuffing should be completely removed from the bird and refrigerated separately.  Because of the extra moisture in stuffing, it will only keep for one or at most two days.    See the posting "Dis-dressed Turkey" for more about stuffing safety.

As much as possible, the meat should be stored in large pieces.  Most food safety experts recommend taking all of the meat off of the bones before refrigerating.  The carcass can be discarded or used to make stock or soup.

Reheat the leftover turkey to at least 165°F (74°C), preferably in gravy, or some other sauce, before serving.

To learn more about how long food can be left out before refrigeration and the danger zone, read How Long Can Cooked Food Be Left Out.

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If you have food or cooking questions, send them to Questions@KitchenSavvy.com
Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward

Roast Turkey Temperature

When roasting a turkey, what temperature should it be cooked to and what is the best way to measure the temperature.

--Brenda

Ideally, the meat on the breast of a turkey should be roasted to 165°F (74°C) to be at its most tender.  However the leg and thigh need to be cooked slightly higher, to between 175°F (80°C) and 180°F (82°C).  At those temperatures, the light and dark meats are at their most tender and moist.  Above those temperatures, the proteins start to tighten, squeezing out moisture and leaving the meat drier.

There are a lot of techniques that have been devised for getting around this temperature difference.  The Joy of Cooking suggests roasting the bird breast down or on one side for about two hours and then flipping it on its back to finish.  In The Way to Cook, Julia Child suggests breaking the turkey down into pieces before roasting.  Because the drumsticks and thighs are away from the larger breast, they will cook faster.  The cooked turkey can be carved and presented as if it had been roasted whole.

The easiest method is simply to roast the turkey whole and cover the breast with a double layer of aluminum foil for the last half hour or so of cooking.

Total cooking time depends on the size of the bird and whether or not it is stuffed.  Smaller birds and those that are not stuffed will cook faster.  In general, allow about 15 minutes per pound for a stuffed turkey and about 12 minutes per pound if it is not stuffed.  Also, remember to add 20 minutes to a half hour resting time once the turkey comes out of the oven before carving it.

To measure temperature for a whole roasted turkey, plunge an instant read thermometer into the thickest part of the thigh away from the bone, but towards the body and wait until the needle stops moving.  If the tip of the thermometer is close to or touching bone, the reading will not be accurate.  Measure the temperature of the breast by plunging the tip of the thermometer into the thickest part of the breast, again away from any bone.  The temperatures should both be at least those noted above.  If you break the turkey down, each piece must be tested for temperature individually.

Also, remember that to be safe the stuffing should read at least 165°F (74°C), measured by inserting the thermometer into the deepest part of the stuffing.  See the posting "Dis-dressed Turkey" for more about stuffing safety.

Finally, if your turkey comes with one of those pop-up buttons to show when it is done, still check with a thermometer.  The button is only an estimate and may not be completely reliable.

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If you have food or cooking questions, send them to Questions@KitchenSavvy.com
Due to the volume of questions received, not all can be answered.
© Lost Hobbit Enterprises 2004 onward